Enstaka smådelar Weber - var hittar man det?

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Christoffer E
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Enstaka smådelar Weber - var hittar man det?

Post by Christoffer E »

Hej!

Har noterat att två av mina tomgångsmunstycken har skador (små sprickor) på "vingarna" som håller dom på plats i den gängade skruven. Det påverkar ju inte funktionen men ibland fastnar själva munstycket inne i förgasaren när man ska göra rent dom och jag bävar inför den dag som ena vingen kanske lossnar och kommer vilse inne i förgasaren? :shock:

Nån som vet var man kan hitta enstaka Weber-delar? Eller är det till att köpa hela satser och plocka ut det man behöver?

hälsar // C
Porsche 912 Coupé 1969 Silver
christerL
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Post by christerL »

http://youroil.net/weber_carb_parts.html

Har för mig han heter Larry. Trevlig att ha att göra med. Att han håller till på andra sidan havet är nog inga problem när det gäller portot för tomgångsmunstycken. :)

Uups! Såg att det gällde 912. Då kanske du ska kolla på närmare håll för de webrarna går ju att hitta delar till lite lättare. KG-trimning kan vara ett ställe att söka på men finns ju flera när det gäller de vanligare fuggarna.
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Rickard M
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Post by Rickard M »

Är det IDF gasare antar jag, storlek på munstyckerna? Jag har ett par nya 55 över iaf.
Porsche 911T 1971 2200cc. Signal orange 116
VW Golf MK1 1983 1600cc
VW Golf GTE
VW Dubbelhytt/camper Bay 1978, 2,0 Turbo
VW Westfalia Campmobile 1974, 2,0
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Christoffer E
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Post by Christoffer E »

Tack för tipsen - jag lade till dom i reservdelstråden!

Yup - det är 40IDF'or - jag pratade med KG Trim men har ingen koll på vilken storlek jag har nu - ska titta i helgen och återkommer. Passar dina så hör jag av mig, Rikard!

Rent principiellt - hur upplevs skillnaden om man går upp i storlek på dessa munstycken? Är det olika karaktäristika på individuella motorer hur man "jettar"? Jag menar... bilen går ju bra? "If it aint broken - don't fix it!" :lol:

// C - shoppingsugen efter att ha fått tbx på skatten - wohoo!
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Rickard M
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Post by Rickard M »

Här är en riktigt bra sammanfatting om vad munstyckerna dina gör:
http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resou ... etting.htm

Motorn går på idle jet upp till 2500-3000 varv. Viktigt att ha dessa rätt eftersom det påverkar bränsleekonomin mycket. Sägs att motorn går till 90% eller så inom detta varvtal.(speciellt körning landsväg i konstant fart)

En annan svensk firma: http://www.misab.se/ kända för att vara dyra dock.

Klipper in en annan justerings guide, skrivet för tripplar men principen är ju den samma:

WEBER SET UP GUIDE

To set up the Webers, you should have performed the following steps:
1)adjusted accelerator pump quantities
2)set float levels
3)equalized vacuum on each carb using idle air correction screws
4)balanced vacuum side-to-side @ idle and at 3000 RPM
5)adjusted idle mixture
6)set idle speed

STEP 1- Accelerator Pump Volume, (See also in the end of this document)
Measure the accelerator pump volume at each of the 6 nozzles. Before starting the car, turn the key “on” and energize the fuel pump. Let the pump run a minute or so to fill up the float bowls. The air cleaners are off. Now, lower the vial down the throat of barrel No. 1 and park it directly under the nozzle. Have the assistant in the car depress the gas pedal all the way, nice and easy. Withdraw the vial, record the results on a piece of paper, and dump the contents of the vial. Repeat at each nozzle. (You may have to remove the velocity stacks for cylinders 2, 3 and 6 to gain proper access to the nozzles for those barrels.) Adjust the nut on the accelerator pump rod as necessary. Turning the adjuster nut out will increase the amount injected, and vica versa. You want .6 to .8cc (ml) (.75cc works great). Get them all even.

This procedure can also be done on the bench. Just fill the float bowl that has the brass valve in the bottom that feeds fuel to the accelerator pump. Then activate the pump and measure. The advantage of measuring at this stage, as opposed to when the carburetors are attached to the intake manifolds, is that if there is a blockage, it is easy to get at the check valves, nozzles, pumps, and float bowl valves and clean them out.

This procedure also provides a good opportunity to check that the throttle plates are opening all the way (vertical) with the gas pedal floored. If they are not, turn the plastic adjuster under the gas pedal in to give more travel, or out (less travel) if the throttle plates rotate beyond the vertical position.

STEP 2- Float Level Adjustment
Remove one of the two float bowl plugs on one of the carbs. There are two plugs per carb since there are two float bowls and two floats per carb. Careful- all the fuel in the float bowl will dump out so catch it with a little jar. Now insert the tool and tighten it to prevent leaking, since any leaking at the washer will give false readings. You need to focus on the upper two lines scribed on the vial portion of the tool. The lower two lines are for the Zenith carbs that some 911T's used (70-71). Have the assistant turn on the key to energize the pump but don't try to start the car. Now the float bowl will fill and you'll see gas fill the vial. After the vial is through filling, carefully examine where the meniscus is. You want it right between the top two lines. Turn off the key. Remove the needle valve plug, back out the needle valve and seat and add or subtract washers as necessary to raise or lower the fuel level, respectively. (ADD SHIMS= INCREASE FUEL LEVEL; REMOVE SHIMS= DECREASE FUEL LEVEL). Replace the needle valve and seat and the plug and have the assistant turn on the key. Note the fuel level. Continue to adjust until the meniscus is spot-on. The washers that come with the tool differ in thickness. After you do one, you will develop a sense for how many washers you need to raise/lower the fuel level. Then remove the other float bowl plug on the same carb and repeat the process. Keep at it until you've got them all perfect.

A couple of things- some books say to measure the fuel level with the car running. I've tried it that way and believe me, it's pretty hard to do since the engine is vibrating when it’s running. This vibration makes the fuel is slosh around in the vial and thus it becomes difficult to determine if the level is correct. This is exacerbated by the fact that the two lines scribed on the vial are near the very top of the vial. Second point-- the washers under the float bowl plugs are crush washers that are good for one shot. After you replace the plugs, if you re-use the washers, they are likely to leak. If you have some extra ones, use them. If you don't, don't overtighten the little bastards. Just snug them and move on. You can always order more from PMO and then go back and replace them at your convenience.

STEP 3- Initial Start-up Adjustments
Make the initial adjustments to the screws as per PMO and fire it up.

Initial adjustments (PMO) are as follows:
Idle air correction: 1/8 turn out*
idle screws: ½ turn in after touching throttle arm on each carb
idle mixture screws: 2 turns out

(*I suggest turning all the idle air correction screws in (gently!) until they hit their seats, and lock them down for the initial start up. You want a nice rich mixture for starters to avoid excessive popping which is really distracting, and then work from there.)

Here is where it gets tricky- while your assistant in the car keeps the motor running by judicious applications of throttle so that the engine warms, you have to diagnose in a grossly rough way, what is going on and what you need to do to smooth out the idle so that you can get the car running tolerably well enough to begin the real work of balance, synchronization, mixture adjustment and idle speed adjustment.

If the engine idles (regardless of speed) with the initial settings, do the following: if any barrel is spitting, slowly open the mixture screw- like 1/8 of a turn at a time. This should reduce the incidence of popping/spitting. Once the popping is reduced, quickly measure vacuum on each barrel with your STE. Are the barrels of each carb pulling roughly the same vacuum? If not, and vacuum is all over the place, determine which carb is pulling, on average, more vacuum than the other. Then open up the idle stop screw on the carb that pulls less vacuum, or turn in the idle stop screw on the carb that pulls more vacuum, or both, so as to get both sides roughly equal. Keep engine speed close to idle speed (900 rpm).

If the engine won’t idle, have the assistant hold it at a faster speed and adjust the mixture screws to avoid excessive popping. Once the engine runs smoothly, release the gas pedal and see if it idles. Check vacuum and make any adjustments to the idle stop screws that are necessary to get the car to run at idle. Once the car is warm (140 degrees or better) and holding an idle, it is ready for accurately setting balance, sync, mix and idle speed.
STEP 4- Vacuum Adjustment- (balance)
Disconnect the right and left carbs from the crossbar by undoing the short press rods on each carb. Use an 8-mm wrench to pop the ball cups free of the throttle arms. You don't want the linkage affecting this adjustment. Pick a carb. At 900 rpm, measure vacuum at each barrel and record results. Determine which barrel pulls the most vacuum (“reference barrel”). Lock down the jam nut on that barrel’s idle air correction screw. Now, carefully and slowly turn out the idle air correction screw on one of the two barrels that doesn't pull as much vacuum as the reference barrel. Get the vacuum exactly equal to the reference barrel. As you open the idle air screw to equalize vacuum, you are going to experience popping, since you are leaning out the mixture by introducing more air into that barrel's idle mixture. DON"T PANIC! Just open the mixture screw up a hair to compensate so that the popping doesn't distract you, or if it's just occasional popping, you can leave it alone for the moment. When vacuum is equal to the reference barrel, lock down the jam nut. Equalize vacuum in the remaining barrel the same way.

Now, you have all three barrels on the one carb pulling equal vacuum. Repeat the process for the other carb.

Step 5- Side-to-Side Balance @ Idle (synchronization)
Using the STE synchrometer, determine which side is pulling more vacuum. Turn the idle stop screws out or in a hair until both sides are pulling equal vacuum and you have 900 rpm idle. Turn the idle stop screws in to speed or out to slow, keeping each side balanced with the other. Now, the engine should be running at 900 rpm with each barrel pulling exactly equal vacuum. You are probably getting an occasional pop since your mixtures are all off.

Step 6- Side-to-Side Balance @ 3000 RPM (synchronization)
Reattach the press rods. Check the side-to-side balance at idle to make sure that the linkage isn't off at idle. If the press rods disturb the idle balance, adjust them so that they exert no preload on the carb throttles. Now you are ready for balance at 3000 rpm. Have the assistant hold the engine at 3000 rpm. Quickly run the STE over each barrel and record the results. Each barrel of each carb will match. But, your linkage could be off, causing the right carb to be out of sync with the left—that is, one carb may be pulling more vacuum than the other at 3000 rpm. If one carb is pulling more vacuum than the other @ 3000 rpm, lengthen or shorten the right/left press rods to compensate. When you get vacuum to balance at 3000 rpm, check that the linkage adjustment hasn’t screwed up idle balance. When vacuum balances at idle and at 3000 rpm, you are synchronized and ready for the "artful" part of this process, where it helps to have the ear of a musician.

Step 7- Mixture Adjustment
Speed the car to 1200 rpm using the hand throttle in the car to hold it there. (This is the BA method- put rock on gas pedal. PMO advises to disconnect the right press rod and speed the engine with the idle stop screws. I use the BA method.) Now start with barrel 1. Slowly turn the mixture screw in until you hear slight popping in the muffler- a little more and the idle speed drops. You may get an occasional BIG POP while doing this- this is normal. As soon as the idle speed drops, slowly turn out the screw until idle speed comes back up- this should take about 1/8 of a turn. You may hear that faint popping in the muffler at this point. If you do, turn the screw out a bit more until the popping disappears and the engine runs smoothly. (NOTE: Slow turns on the screw are warranted. Reaction to changes in the screw’s position is not immediate.) Now, note the position of the screw and slowly give it 1/2 a turn more. This is the initial setting. If it continues to pop or spit up before moving on to the next barrel, turn out the mixture screw an additional 1/8 turn. All should be well with that barrel for the moment. Proceed to barrel 2- same process- then 3, 4, 5 and 6. If it took ½ plus 1/8 of a turn to get barrel 1 to behave, then turn out the mixture adjustment screws for all of the other barrels the exact same amount.

After you run through them once, you will have some doubts as to whether you got the mixture on the first few barrels equal, since as you move through this process, you will begin to develop the "ear" and the "feel." Start over with barrel 1. Make sure that each screw is turned out the same amount from that point where the idle speed returns without faint exhaust popping after it has dropped as a result of turning it in. The point here is to get them all equal. Run through them as many times as it takes to smooth out all popping and spit ups and to get satisfied that you have them all open the same.

Step 8- Idle Speed Adjustment
Release the hand throttle and let the engine return to idle speed. If idle speed is off, disconnect the right and left press rods. Adjust the idle speed to 900 rpm with the idle stop screws. Make sure that side-to-side vacuum remains equal. The engine should be running smooth- no popping and holding a nice idle. Reconnect the press rods and check balance at idle and at 3000 rpm again just to be sure!

Step 9- Test Drive
Take the car for a test ride. Is there any surging between 2000 and 3000 rpm? Is it popping on deceleration? Is it transitioning seamlessly between idle and main circuits? That is, no flat spots, right?

Return to home base. Make any final adjustments that you feel are necessary to the mixture screws. In other words, if it popped occasionally or surged, turn all mixture screws out an extra 1/8. Repeat test ride. Make any further adjustments that are necessary.

If the mixture screws are turned out more than 3 ½ turns from full in, the idle jets are too small. If the engine stumbles on acceleration or is slow to return to idle, the idle jets are too small.

--------------------------------------------------


Accelerator Pump Volume…

Yep, 3 nozzles, 2 bowls to feed them, and 1 pump to feed all three.

This is pretty easy to do. I take the bare carbs outside, and set both ends on blocks of wood. When you crank the rod end to make the pump work, the butterflys will open below the surface of the carb body, so they need to be suspended to move freely. When you pump, gas will squirt right down through the open butterflys to the ground, so be somewhere where you can make a bit of a mess.

First check that all the nozzles are physically the same. Usually there will be a 50 inside a circle cast on them somewhere. Make sure you have the paper thin washer installed underneath each one.

What you want to prove is 1) they all work, 2) they all work the same.

When you crank the rod end a full stroke, all three nozzles will squirt. You'll need something like a small test tube, or the body of a syringe with the needle end plugged up. Something that you can tie a wire to and fit directly under a nozzle and has measurement lines on it. There is a Weber vial specifically for this, but it's about $40, which is ridiculous. A syringe body works great, but you may have to scatch in your own line at .50 or .60 as gas tends to dissolve the print on a plastic syringe. Fill your bowls with gas. One bowl feeds two nozzles, one bowl feeds the other nozzle. To test all three nozzles you'll need both bowls filled. Use this opportunity to make sure your floats float, and move freely.

Hold your vial directly under the nozzle end and crank a full stroke. Do this for each nozzle at least three times for a consistent read. Do it for each nozzle down the line. Usually they are very close to being the same. You may have one that dribbles a few drops instead of snapping off cleanly. I've had to switch nozzles around to get consistent numbers on a bank.

A bit of variation (.01-.03cc) is ok, most of that comes from the human on the end, since it's impossible to crank exactly the same each time. But you'll probably find them surprisingly precise, Webers are just great pieces.

The rod adjustment will control the volume you get with each squirt. This is what you are measuring to adjust, and obviously, you want both carbs the same. That oft-repeated instruction you referenced says .6-.8 cc. I've found, at least on 2.0 and 2.2's, that this makes for a noticable midrange bog. Just too much gas being dumped in. I usually go with about .5 cc. But I also did a set for a friend with a 3.0 this way, and it seems happy too.

You can also set all the other adjustments before the carbs go on. I've got a garage vac with a nozzle that happens to fit perfectly tight in the bottom of a Weber manifold. That and something like an old Manomometer or other vacuum tester where vacuum makes a ball rise in a tube, and you can flow each barrel and set them within 95% before they ever go on the car.

Last test is for the float levels, that one you still have to do on the car. But the real art for these is getting the exact combination of jetting and so on for a particular car with a particular sized motor. That's where the fun begins after the basics are over. But it also is true what they say - once you get them right, you never have to touch them.
Last edited by Rickard M on Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Porsche 911T 1971 2200cc. Signal orange 116
VW Golf MK1 1983 1600cc
VW Golf GTE
VW Dubbelhytt/camper Bay 1978, 2,0 Turbo
VW Westfalia Campmobile 1974, 2,0
christerL
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:46 pm

Post by christerL »

Christoffer E wrote:Tack för tipsen - jag lade till dom i reservdelstråden!

Yup - det är 40IDF'or - jag pratade med KG Trim men har ingen koll på vilken storlek jag har nu - ska titta i helgen och återkommer. Passar dina så hör jag av mig, Rikard!

Rent principiellt - hur upplevs skillnaden om man går upp i storlek på dessa munstycken? Är det olika karaktäristika på individuella motorer hur man "jettar"? Jag menar... bilen går ju bra? "If it aint broken - don't fix it!" :lol:

// C - shoppingsugen efter att ha fått tbx på skatten - wohoo!

Precis: "If it aint broken - don't fix it!" :wink:

Andra kanske kan stämma in med andra synpunkter/erfarenheter (typ Rickard som hållt på en del). Men detta är vad jag kan delge.

- Har du för små tomgångsmunstycken (leerlaufduese på Porsches eget språk :-) Så får du baksmällar i förgasarens insug. Kan den iof göra när den (motorn) är kall ändå men det är en annan sak.

- Sätter du i för stora så drar den mer bensin och går fetare/kanske sotar stiften.

Alltså du "trimmar" inte motorn med att sätta i större munstycken!!

Men är de missformade så är det ju bra att byta dem. "Tyvärr" är de inte särskilt dyra så vad du ska göra med resten av skatteåterbäringen får väl övriga forumnissar komma med förslag på :shock: :lol:

Edit. Fasen vad hjälpsamma vi är Rickard. Vi sitter visst och tävlar om vem som ska hinna svara först. Fast du vinner Rickard! Du bifogade ju hela "bibeln" :D
Christer
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Rickard M
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Post by Rickard M »

Ja webrar är ju kul :)
Bifogar en bild på mina lätt modifierade IDF 40´s som har dundrat ner för strippen på 13,8, dvs samma tid som en Cayman S 8)
Image
Porsche 911T 1971 2200cc. Signal orange 116
VW Golf MK1 1983 1600cc
VW Golf GTE
VW Dubbelhytt/camper Bay 1978, 2,0 Turbo
VW Westfalia Campmobile 1974, 2,0
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